Comments on: How to Understand the Temple http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/ exploring Mormon thought, culture, and texts Thu, 09 Sep 2010 18:56:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: cure per il corpo http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3353 cure per il corpo Sun, 01 Apr 2007 04:45:57 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3353 <strong>cure per il corpo</strong> How to Understand the Temple « Faith Promoting Rumor cure per il corpo

How to Understand the Temple « Faith Promoting Rumor

]]> By: TT http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3352 TT Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:57:36 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3352 Jupiterschild, Great questions. These are definitely some areas worth contrasting. I am really not an expert in this stuff, so hopefully someone someday can shed more light on these issues. But for now, I think that the overall soteriological claim of the temple ritual is obviously much more of a robust claim than these other groups. Also, rituals like baptism and sealing are also quite different. Architecturally, I think that the basic layout of progression between rooms, a veil, and an inner sanctum are pretty common features, but these varied widely. Often these groups rented out a church or saloon to hold their rituals, so the room layout was more fluid than in a stand alone building. The Masons, at least, did try to model the inner architecture and instruments on Solomon's temple, from what I understand. Jupiterschild,
Great questions. These are definitely some areas worth contrasting. I am really not an expert in this stuff, so hopefully someone someday can shed more light on these issues. But for now, I think that the overall soteriological claim of the temple ritual is obviously much more of a robust claim than these other groups. Also, rituals like baptism and sealing are also quite different.
Architecturally, I think that the basic layout of progression between rooms, a veil, and an inner sanctum are pretty common features, but these varied widely. Often these groups rented out a church or saloon to hold their rituals, so the room layout was more fluid than in a stand alone building. The Masons, at least, did try to model the inner architecture and instruments on Solomon’s temple, from what I understand.

]]> By: jupiterschild http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3351 jupiterschild Wed, 28 Feb 2007 03:10:00 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3351 TT, Excellent and refreshing post. What do you know of how the content itself stacks up against the common rituals/stories etc. of the era of associationalism? Did they make the same claims to access to divine presence and such that the Temple does? What about architecture? TT,

Excellent and refreshing post.

What do you know of how the content itself stacks up against the common rituals/stories etc. of the era of associationalism? Did they make the same claims to access to divine presence and such that the Temple does? What about architecture?

]]> By: TT http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3350 TT Wed, 28 Feb 2007 02:29:14 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3350 RT, This is really an interesting insight about how the temple's significance has changed to increase Mormon distinctiveness. While I agree with your overall modification of Mauss to speak of a more nuanced view of these trends, I just want to note that I think that the date of his publication (1994) in some ways officially marks the end to the period of retrenchment that he saw in the 1970's to the early 1990's. I think that the September Six the year before were the last real public move toward retrenchment that spurred the shift toward assimilation that we've seen under Hinkley. LXXL, I am not sure if there has been a decline in emphasis on temple symbolism. I think that the streamlining of the ritual is not necessarily evidence of that, but maybe. Robert C., I agree completely that this is the direction that we are moving with the temple. However, I have to wonder if the taste for esotericism of this sort has been lost except for among a very few. I think that symbolic actions and symbols in general are interesting, but they also have to have a social context for real meaning. My argument in this post was to posit that the temple ceremony actually has lost value as the larger cultural context of American saints has shifted away from the culture of voluntary associations. I wonder if symbolism just falls flat for modern Mormons, and that the return of lectures in the temple, meetings in the temple, etc, which would highlight the social element of temple worship, might not strengthen its meaning concurrently with a more rich symbolic understanding of temple worship. RT,
This is really an interesting insight about how the temple’s significance has changed to increase Mormon distinctiveness. While I agree with your overall modification of Mauss to speak of a more nuanced view of these trends, I just want to note that I think that the date of his publication (1994) in some ways officially marks the end to the period of retrenchment that he saw in the 1970′s to the early 1990′s. I think that the September Six the year before were the last real public move toward retrenchment that spurred the shift toward assimilation that we’ve seen under Hinkley.

LXXL,
I am not sure if there has been a decline in emphasis on temple symbolism. I think that the streamlining of the ritual is not necessarily evidence of that, but maybe.

Robert C.,
I agree completely that this is the direction that we are moving with the temple. However, I have to wonder if the taste for esotericism of this sort has been lost except for among a very few. I think that symbolic actions and symbols in general are interesting, but they also have to have a social context for real meaning. My argument in this post was to posit that the temple ceremony actually has lost value as the larger cultural context of American saints has shifted away from the culture of voluntary associations. I wonder if symbolism just falls flat for modern Mormons, and that the return of lectures in the temple, meetings in the temple, etc, which would highlight the social element of temple worship, might not strengthen its meaning concurrently with a more rich symbolic understanding of temple worship.

]]> By: Robert C. http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3331 Robert C. Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:01:29 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3331 Interesting post and discussion. My sense is that there is on the horizon a bit of a reinterpretation of the significance of the temple coming. That is, I think there will be in the not-too-distant future more and more work done regarding the symoblic significance of the temple, work that will open possibilities about the meaning of the temple ceremony---work that is related to what I anticipate to be better and better interpretive work on the Pearl of Great Price. I think there was a bit of a devaluation of the temple as issues like creation vs. evolution became more prominent, issues that have detracted generally from the significance of symbolism, typology, etc. My sense (and hope) is that we will see an increase in work that explores <i>interpretations</i> of the temple ceremony, work that roughly parallels the rise in literary approaches to scripture which are less concerned with historico-critical issues of the Bible, and more focused on interpreting the text as we have received it (I know these approaches are largely complementary, I'm just trying to clarify a contrast to make my point...). (Also, I think this sentence from the last paragraph was a bit clumsy: "If such a theory is correct, it raises some interesting questions. . . ." That is, if you are really thinking of this as a catch-all theory that is "correct" or not, I have some serious problems with your view. But I take it you meant something more to like "if this theory has any merit," which I definitely agree with.) Interesting post and discussion. My sense is that there is on the horizon a bit of a reinterpretation of the significance of the temple coming. That is, I think there will be in the not-too-distant future more and more work done regarding the symoblic significance of the temple, work that will open possibilities about the meaning of the temple ceremony—work that is related to what I anticipate to be better and better interpretive work on the Pearl of Great Price. I think there was a bit of a devaluation of the temple as issues like creation vs. evolution became more prominent, issues that have detracted generally from the significance of symbolism, typology, etc. My sense (and hope) is that we will see an increase in work that explores interpretations of the temple ceremony, work that roughly parallels the rise in literary approaches to scripture which are less concerned with historico-critical issues of the Bible, and more focused on interpreting the text as we have received it (I know these approaches are largely complementary, I’m just trying to clarify a contrast to make my point…).

(Also, I think this sentence from the last paragraph was a bit clumsy: “If such a theory is correct, it raises some interesting questions. . . .” That is, if you are really thinking of this as a catch-all theory that is “correct” or not, I have some serious problems with your view. But I take it you meant something more to like “if this theory has any merit,” which I definitely agree with.)

]]> By: RoastedTomatoes http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3332 RoastedTomatoes Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:51:45 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3332 TT #6, the question of whether Mormons are on the assimilation or the conflict end of the Mauss spectrum -- and where we are moving -- is a difficult one. Mauss actually argues, in "The Angel and the Beehive," that the church has been moving in the conflict direction for quite some time, and hence that we are in the middle of a period of retrenchment. On the other hand, the period that he identifies as one primarily of retrenchment has seen substantial accommodation on issues of women in the workplace, birth control, family size, biblical criticism, and so forth. So I'd suggest that we abandon ideas of the church moving coherently one way or the other and instead think of this dynamic as one in which the church is always moving in both directions on the spectrum, depending on the issue in question. In that view, the implicit retrenchment involved in retaining the temple may help to balance the assimilation involved in some of the other issues I've mentioned above, maintaining a distinctive Mormon identity without seeming too off-puttingly other to get converts. TT #6, the question of whether Mormons are on the assimilation or the conflict end of the Mauss spectrum — and where we are moving — is a difficult one. Mauss actually argues, in “The Angel and the Beehive,” that the church has been moving in the conflict direction for quite some time, and hence that we are in the middle of a period of retrenchment. On the other hand, the period that he identifies as one primarily of retrenchment has seen substantial accommodation on issues of women in the workplace, birth control, family size, biblical criticism, and so forth. So I’d suggest that we abandon ideas of the church moving coherently one way or the other and instead think of this dynamic as one in which the church is always moving in both directions on the spectrum, depending on the issue in question. In that view, the implicit retrenchment involved in retaining the temple may help to balance the assimilation involved in some of the other issues I’ve mentioned above, maintaining a distinctive Mormon identity without seeming too off-puttingly other to get converts.

]]> By: Katie http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3349 Katie Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:33:53 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3349 While I think that the temple has become increasingly foreign in our everything in the open/caught on tape/sarcastic/relativistic culture, in some ways that gives it a special appeal. It seems that our culture is becoming more and more interested in mysticism and conspiracy and cover-up (witness the popularity of the Davinci Code and now "The Secret"). In some ways the church is in a prime position to tap into this mindset. We've got the ancient truths, once covered-up, now brought to light storyline covered like butter on bread. While I think that the temple has become increasingly foreign in our everything in the open/caught on tape/sarcastic/relativistic culture, in some ways that gives it a special appeal. It seems that our culture is becoming more and more interested in mysticism and conspiracy and cover-up (witness the popularity of the Davinci Code and now “The Secret”). In some ways the church is in a prime position to tap into this mindset. We’ve got the ancient truths, once covered-up, now brought to light storyline covered like butter on bread.

]]> By: lxxluthor http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3348 lxxluthor Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:03:08 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3348 Excellent intro post. I know that you've been producing this sort of work for ages over at UM but this was a very appropriate post for your first time here. I think that this one modern way of understanding the temple and its rituals (namely fraternal societies) has waned, almost to the point that it joins the ancient understanding of mystery religions. I would be surprised if that didn't have a negative effect on attendance. (although how one would measure this I don't know) If the temple ceremonies were abandoned in favor of a Mass type meeting or Evangelical gathering I wonder how that would increase attendance among some of our converts? And decrease it among generational members? Also, I see a move away from some of the symbolism of the temple, modern and ancient. Some of this I would attribute to a desire to speed up the ceremony and increase efficiency. Some I think is social. Excellent intro post. I know that you’ve been producing this sort of work for ages over at UM but this was a very appropriate post for your first time here.

I think that this one modern way of understanding the temple and its rituals (namely fraternal societies) has waned, almost to the point that it joins the ancient understanding of mystery religions. I would be surprised if that didn’t have a negative effect on attendance. (although how one would measure this I don’t know)

If the temple ceremonies were abandoned in favor of a Mass type meeting or Evangelical gathering I wonder how that would increase attendance among some of our converts? And decrease it among generational members?

Also, I see a move away from some of the symbolism of the temple, modern and ancient. Some of this I would attribute to a desire to speed up the ceremony and increase efficiency. Some I think is social.

]]> By: HP http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3347 HP Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:10:54 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3347 pie pie

]]> By: Dr. Nick http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2007/02/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3346 Dr. Nick Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:05:37 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/2007/02/26/how-to-understand-the-temple/#comment-3346 And the p? And the p?

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