Comments on: Creation in Genesis 1-3 (Part 4–The Heavenly Council) http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/ exploring Mormon thought, culture, and texts Fri, 19 Mar 2010 18:03:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: john f. http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9532 john f. Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:16:46 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9532 Todd: This is your standard operating procedure -- you have not addressed the point about the Deuteronomists. I have not seen you give a direct answer when people pose you anon's question: are we simply to ignore the scholarship surrounding the Deuteronomists and their role in editing/changing/obscuring the text and religion from their/its earlier forms? Where does your view of a sufficient, inerrant Bible actually come from? I understand that the existence and role of the Deuteronomists, as highlighted by critics/scholars involved with the Documentary Hypothesis, are potentially very damaging to many of your core beliefs. But it would be nice to see a direct answer from you to questions such as those posed by anon above. Todd:

This is your standard operating procedure — you have not addressed the point about the Deuteronomists. I have not seen you give a direct answer when people pose you anon’s question: are we simply to ignore the scholarship surrounding the Deuteronomists and their role in editing/changing/obscuring the text and religion from their/its earlier forms?

Where does your view of a sufficient, inerrant Bible actually come from? I understand that the existence and role of the Deuteronomists, as highlighted by critics/scholars involved with the Documentary Hypothesis, are potentially very damaging to many of your core beliefs. But it would be nice to see a direct answer from you to questions such as those posed by anon above.

]]> By: Todd Wood http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9531 Todd Wood Wed, 18 Feb 2009 01:34:34 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9531 Anon, if Joseph Smith were alive today, I would imagine that he would not be using the KJV or traditional LDS views or prevalent textual scholarship. He would be charting a brand new course. (Well, actually nothing is really new under the sun.) Thanks, YD. I will look around. Anon, if Joseph Smith were alive today, I would imagine that he would not be using the KJV or traditional LDS views or prevalent textual scholarship. He would be charting a brand new course. (Well, actually nothing is really new under the sun.)

Thanks, YD. I will look around.

]]> By: The Yellow Dart http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9530 The Yellow Dart Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:07:59 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9530 Todd, If you click on my name on the right side of the blog you can see all the posts I have done so far, including those in this series (I believe that there have been five installments in this particular series so far, and I intend for three more). Moreover, the foundations of the future posts can be read at my other blog. I don't care if you want to link to these posts. TYD Todd,

If you click on my name on the right side of the blog you can see all the posts I have done so far, including those in this series (I believe that there have been five installments in this particular series so far, and I intend for three more). Moreover, the foundations of the future posts can be read at my other blog. I don’t care if you want to link to these posts.

TYD

]]> By: anonymous http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9529 anonymous Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:20:28 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9529 Todd, is your contention that a person of faith should just ignore the documentary hypothesis and the possible revision of the texts by Deuteronomists? If so, would your position be to ignore anything that challenged the traditional view of the texts? Further, would you argue that to be faithful, LDS should avoid/ignore textual analyses of their scriptures, too? Todd, is your contention that a person of faith should just ignore the documentary hypothesis and the possible revision of the texts by Deuteronomists? If so, would your position be to ignore anything that challenged the traditional view of the texts? Further, would you argue that to be faithful, LDS should avoid/ignore textual analyses of their scriptures, too?

]]> By: Todd Wood http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9528 Todd Wood Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:58:22 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9528 Well, John, I would say that defending truth is worth losing one's job and status within a community. And in heeding your comment, I will refrain from further sarcasm. YD, is this the fourth actual post on this topic? I would like to read through all of them again in sequence so that I am not just playing hit and miss or run and gun. I hope to link them in order for a post on my blog, coupling them with Blake's first chapter of his third book. Ok? Well, John, I would say that defending truth is worth losing one’s job and status within a community. And in heeding your comment, I will refrain from further sarcasm.

YD, is this the fourth actual post on this topic? I would like to read through all of them again in sequence so that I am not just playing hit and miss or run and gun. I hope to link them in order for a post on my blog, coupling them with Blake’s first chapter of his third book. Ok?

]]> By: John C. http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9527 John C. Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:44:44 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9527 Todd, That is unfair. Documentary critics were just discussing what made the most rational sense to them. It was not a ploy on their part to keep their jobs (quite a few of the early ones lost jobs over it). A similar accusation could be made of Christian ministers who come onto Mormon websites to defend their version of Christianity, you know. It assumes ill will on the other party. That comment was beneath you, Todd. Todd,
That is unfair. Documentary critics were just discussing what made the most rational sense to them. It was not a ploy on their part to keep their jobs (quite a few of the early ones lost jobs over it). A similar accusation could be made of Christian ministers who come onto Mormon websites to defend their version of Christianity, you know. It assumes ill will on the other party.

That comment was beneath you, Todd.

]]> By: Todd Wood http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9526 Todd Wood Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:31:42 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9526 Anon, that is why you have the higher critic to hold your hand and lead you through the documentary rubble. Anon, that is why you have the higher critic to hold your hand and lead you through the documentary rubble.

]]> By: anonymous http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9521 anonymous Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:53:59 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9521 I don't have the time or the ability to provide meaningful documentation of my issues, but in summary they are these: 1) The documentary hypothesis, if true, seems to indicate that the available texts of the Pentateuch have been cobbled together by some unknown person(s) in ways that obscure access to the original or "true" text; 2) if the Deuteronomists really did edit the texts and even create texts to support their particular views on the Messiah, etc., how can a lay person have confidence in what they left us? I don’t have the time or the ability to provide meaningful documentation of my issues, but in summary they are these: 1) The documentary hypothesis, if true, seems to indicate that the available texts of the Pentateuch have been cobbled together by some unknown person(s) in ways that obscure access to the original or “true” text; 2) if the Deuteronomists really did edit the texts and even create texts to support their particular views on the Messiah, etc., how can a lay person have confidence in what they left us?

]]> By: Nitsav http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9523 Nitsav Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:16:07 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9523 Can you elaborate on what and why the text is untrustworthy? Spell it out for us, walk us through your thinking... Can you elaborate on what and why the text is untrustworthy? Spell it out for us, walk us through your thinking…

]]> By: anonymous http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/02/creation-in-genesis-1-3-part-4-the-heavenly-council/#comment-9525 anonymous Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:34:16 +0000 http://faithpromotingrumor.wordpress.com/?p=1529#comment-9525 Agreeing 1) that the OT is valuable as background to the NT, and 2) that the OT has some literary/cultural value, what is the religious value of the OT if the texts can't be trusted? Agreeing 1) that the OT is valuable as background to the NT, and 2) that the OT has some literary/cultural value, what is the religious value of the OT if the texts can’t be trusted?

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