Comments on: The Cultural Critic as Apologist http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/ exploring Mormon thought, culture, and texts Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:39:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Ziff http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10653 Ziff Fri, 08 May 2009 05:25:38 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10653 You make an excellent point, TT. As you observe, official discussion of critics lumps them all together, ironically sometimes assuming they take on characteristics that might describe Clay--not really believing. As you point out, though, he's not really a critic. It's often those who do believe who care enough to criticize. You make an excellent point, TT. As you observe, official discussion of critics lumps them all together, ironically sometimes assuming they take on characteristics that might describe Clay–not really believing. As you point out, though, he’s not really a critic. It’s often those who do believe who care enough to criticize.

]]> By: Kristine http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10595 Kristine Thu, 07 May 2009 02:12:04 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10595 Way back in the dawn of the blogging epoch, I tried to say something like this, although I think you've here articulated it in a more general and useful form. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/03/apologia-of-a-critical-believer/ Way back in the dawn of the blogging epoch, I tried to say something like this, although I think you’ve here articulated it in a more general and useful form. http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2004/03/apologia-of-a-critical-believer/

]]> By: Jessawhy http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10536 Jessawhy Tue, 05 May 2009 20:31:53 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10536 Clay, Perhaps the term you're looking for is Unorthodox? http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/ And, I would join you in that label (or another if it fits better). It's interesting that you mentioned Jews, one of my Jewish friends from HS wrote a blog post recently about Mormons like us, who are on the margins, and why the church doesn't have a place for us, the way Jews have a place for all kinds of observant/non-observant Jews. http://shtetlfab.blogspot.com/2009/04/off-derech-mormon.html TT, great post. Thanks for articulating these ideas in a very positive way. Clay,
Perhaps the term you’re looking for is Unorthodox?
http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/
And, I would join you in that label (or another if it fits better).

It’s interesting that you mentioned Jews, one of my Jewish friends from HS wrote a blog post recently about Mormons like us, who are on the margins, and why the church doesn’t have a place for us, the way Jews have a place for all kinds of observant/non-observant Jews.

http://shtetlfab.blogspot.com/2009/04/off-derech-mormon.html

TT, great post.
Thanks for articulating these ideas in a very positive way.

]]> By: TT http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10501 TT Tue, 05 May 2009 00:33:30 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10501 Hey Clay, It's a good question, but I'm not sure I would put such a person as you've described them as a "critic" at all. Inasmuch as this person doesn't desire to change, help, or hurt the church, they don't engage in criticism. Hey Clay,
It’s a good question, but I’m not sure I would put such a person as you’ve described them as a “critic” at all. Inasmuch as this person doesn’t desire to change, help, or hurt the church, they don’t engage in criticism.

]]> By: Clay http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10496 Clay Mon, 04 May 2009 23:35:49 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10496 TT, What category would include people who don't necessarily believe the core truth claims of the church (saving ordinances, exclusive priesthood authority, etc.) but whose "Mormon-ness" is so essential to them that they can't just walk away, and would love to remain active with the freedom to believe in their own way? I have no illusions that I can affect change in the church. I have no desire to improve the church's ability to gather converts. But I view me being Mormon like being a Jew. It is as much my ethnicity as a religious affiliation. I don't have specific goals to help it or hurt it, but it is my world and I do like to talk about it for good or for bad. What kind of critic would that be? cheers, Clay TT,

What category would include people who don’t necessarily believe the core truth claims of the church (saving ordinances, exclusive priesthood authority, etc.) but whose “Mormon-ness” is so essential to them that they can’t just walk away, and would love to remain active with the freedom to believe in their own way? I have no illusions that I can affect change in the church. I have no desire to improve the church’s ability to gather converts. But I view me being Mormon like being a Jew. It is as much my ethnicity as a religious affiliation. I don’t have specific goals to help it or hurt it, but it is my world and I do like to talk about it for good or for bad. What kind of critic would that be?

cheers,
Clay

]]> By: hawkgrrrl http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10491 hawkgrrrl Mon, 04 May 2009 23:05:49 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10491 Very well put! I am an unabashed culture critic. Very well put! I am an unabashed culture critic.

]]> By: TT http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10467 TT Mon, 04 May 2009 19:03:33 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10467 Thanks TYD! I think that the "Alternative Voices" piece is quite close to what I am doing, though I think that the self-categorization as "alternative" already sets one off on the wrong foot by ceding the ground of the center. Oudenos, lol! I suppose I should have caught that myself since I've been so into psychoanalysis lately. Coincidentally, I wrote this post a month or so ago right after I had been reading Freud! Thanks TYD! I think that the “Alternative Voices” piece is quite close to what I am doing, though I think that the self-categorization as “alternative” already sets one off on the wrong foot by ceding the ground of the center.

Oudenos, lol! I suppose I should have caught that myself since I’ve been so into psychoanalysis lately. Coincidentally, I wrote this post a month or so ago right after I had been reading Freud!

]]> By: oudenos http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10460 oudenos Mon, 04 May 2009 16:54:30 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10460 "They desire to widen the stakes of Zion, to extend the length of the iron rod, and to persuade with love-unfeigned." Whoa. My Freud-dar totally just went off. Obviously this says more about me than about TT. Carry on. “They desire to widen the stakes of Zion, to extend the length of the iron rod, and to persuade with love-unfeigned.”

Whoa. My Freud-dar totally just went off. Obviously this says more about me than about TT. Carry on.

]]> By: Chris H. http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10455 Chris H. Mon, 04 May 2009 15:15:52 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10455 Thanks TT, the term "cultural critic" gives a label to the category which I have long tried to describe. Thanks TT, the term “cultural critic” gives a label to the category which I have long tried to describe.

]]> By: The Yellow Dart http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2009/05/the-cultural-critic-as-apologist/#comment-10454 The Yellow Dart Mon, 04 May 2009 15:10:39 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=1742#comment-10454 TT, Great post! It reminded me of a response that Armand Mauss gave to Dalin H. Oaks' general conference address entitled "Alternate Voices." I think it offers much for the cultural critic to reflect upon. It can be easily accessed here: http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/05/alternate-voices/ Best wishes, TYD TT,

Great post! It reminded me of a response that Armand Mauss gave to Dalin H. Oaks’ general conference address entitled “Alternate Voices.” I think it offers much for the cultural critic to reflect upon. It can be easily accessed here:

http://timesandseasons.org/index.php/2006/05/alternate-voices/

Best wishes,

TYD

]]>