Prayest in thy closet…not thy classroom.
3 Nephi 13:
5 And when thou prayest thou shalt not do as the hypocrites, for they love to pray, standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward.
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret; and thy Father, who seeth in secret, shall reward thee openly.
These two verses remind my wife and I of arguments for school prayer. They rarely have anything to do with humble communication with God. Instead, they are about using prayer to make a political statement.
Am I painting advocates of school prayer in an inaccurate light? Probably. Having grown up in a place with considerable religious diversity, I have never been comfortable with public religion. I am not talking about public expressions of religion, but instead public endorsements of religion. Such endorsements violate the social contract that makes it possible for a community with such pluralism to exist.
Those who use of prayer for political points will have surely have their reward.
I basically agree. When I was in high school there was a group that would gather in the courtyard every morning for a little sermon and prayer. I was occasionally tempted to join them–rather, I was tempted to join my non-LDS religious friend in participating–but I never did, primarily because I was uncomfortable with its public nature. I often thought of the scripture you quoted. If it had been in a classroom, then I probably would have participated.
Comment by Jared* — February 9, 2010 @ 11:12 pm
I have a testimony that these same verses apply to prayer in church as well. Note that synagogues are called out first.
I look forward to the mental gymnastics justifying public prayer even at church.
Comment by PaulM — February 10, 2010 @ 10:35 am
Reminds me of a story included in this years Young Men manual:
“Bill was taking a speech class in school and was assigned to give a speech on a controversial subject. The speech would count for half his grade. Unable to decide on a topic, Bill prayed for help. The impression came to him, ‘If you’re looking for a controversial subject, choose the Book of Mormon.’
Hoping not to offend anyone, Bill began his presentation explaining the history and content of the book. But again the Spirit came upon him. He thought to himself: ‘I don’t care what happens to me, or what happens to my grade. The Book of Mormon is true, and they all ought to know it.’ So he began to teach as if he were speaking to investigators, bearing his testimony of the Book of Mormon.
When he finished, he waited for the other students to make fun of him. Instead, they wrote very positive responses. A few wrote, ‘You have almost convinced me of the truth of what you said.’ Another student wrote, ‘I really would like to know more about your church’ (adapted from Gene R. Cook, ‘Trust in the Lord,’ Ensign, Mar. 1986, p. 79).”
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=bb4a97a7c1d20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=198bf4b13819d110VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD
Comment by Randy B. — February 10, 2010 @ 1:37 pm
Randy,
How is that related?
Comment by Chris Henrichsen — February 10, 2010 @ 1:40 pm
Chris,
I totally agree with you. Of course, I grew up in secular Southern California, and didn’t even realize that anyone wanted prayer in schools (until I was at BYU and, it turned out, some of my classmates thought that taking prayer out of public schools was the worst thing since legalizing abortion).
The funny thing is, my wife totally doesn’t get why I find it so horrible. She grew up in the South (not a hotbed of Mormon friendliness), and had prayer starting her school days (which, at some point, became moments of silence with the lights turned out) and starting football games. She finds the idea of prayer in school totally noncontroversial. Weird, huh?
Comment by Sam B. — February 10, 2010 @ 2:13 pm
“not a hotbed of Mormon friendliness”
That’s the rub though, isn’t it? Maybe you’ve heard of this case: http://www.libertymagazine.org/index.php?id=458 brought by an LDS family and a Catholic family, which made its way all the way to SCOTUS. The HS started football games with a prayer, but somehow the prayer was always offered by the majority southern Baptists, not by the Mormon or Catholic.
The case, which ended up banning prayer at public HS football games, enraged a lot of conservative Mormons (the “worst thing since legalizing abortion” folks), but I think a lot of conservative Mormons are too quick to forget that when you trample on the minority…that might someday be you.
Comment by sister blah 2 — February 10, 2010 @ 11:20 pm
I went to private schools all the way up to college and had prayer and mass as part of my school curriculum. I do not think it was just to be seen of man. I guess it can become that. It was just part of our communal identity, like the moment of silence is now for my daughter at school. (I do encourage to say a private prayer in that moment of silence.) I think public prayer is mainly about community, not politics.
Comment by Matt W. — February 11, 2010 @ 1:18 am
Wouldn’t it be rad if Randy B. were Randy Bott, the most popular professor in Ratemyprofessor.com history!?
Comment by oudenos — February 11, 2010 @ 8:23 am
I grew up in a predominantly LDS community and we did not have prayer in our schools — except at our graduation ceremony. And if my memory serves me correctly, those prayers were offered by a Protestant and a Jew. So, for a long time, I saw nothing wrong with prayer as long as it was inclusive and not exclusive. But in so much of the country, the issue is not really prayer or religion but power. The Texas case is a perfect example. And then you get into questions of what constitutes a religion, should witches be able to pray, should Scientilogists be allowed to pray, what about those who have no religion etc. In the end, keeping prayer out of schools where it would be seen as school-sponsored or endorsed seems like a pretty good idea.
Comment by Jay — February 14, 2010 @ 7:55 am
I always thought praying in school was a sign of self-righteousness on the part of the controlling party. I was most annoyed by the BYU professors (outside the Religion dept) that started every class with a prayer than those that just stuck to the subject matter.
Comment by kew — February 14, 2010 @ 8:29 am
I have mixed emotions about this, because there are probably kids who would be sincere and benefit. Prayer is powerful. I can see, though, how it could turn out to be a competition against who’s more spiritual. Probably not a good idea.
Comment by annegb — February 14, 2010 @ 1:01 pm
A few years back I listened to tapes of the Greatest Presidential Speeches of the 20th Century, and FDR and Eisenhower each ended one of their speeches by leading the nation in prayer, a bit like Gordon Hinckley once did with the Church in General Conference. A public gesture like that requires some goodwill from all sides. The non-religious have to put up the prevailing sentiments of their countrymen. The religious have to not think of such displays as some triumph over non-believers. That goodwill seems absent today on either side, which is a bit of loss for us.
“And again, I command thee that thou shalt pray vocally as well as in thy heart; yea, before the world as well as in secret, in public as well as in private.”—D&C 19:28
Comment by John Mansfield — February 16, 2010 @ 2:34 pm
Well said Mansfield.
Comment by Matt W. — February 16, 2010 @ 2:50 pm
“12.A few years back I listened to tapes of the Greatest Presidential Speeches of the 20th Century, and FDR and Eisenhower each ended one of their speeches by leading the nation in prayer, a bit like Gordon Hinckley once did with the Church in General Conference. ”
Does it make me one of “non-religious,” because I think that sounds more creepy than cool. I am all for a form of civic religion, like Rousseau, I find much of what passes for religion to be divisive. Yet, I am not sure if that is what most religious folks are looking for.
Comment by Chris Henrichsen — February 16, 2010 @ 8:29 pm