Comments on: Teaching and Discussing the Flood http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/ exploring Mormon thought, culture, and texts Fri, 30 Jul 2010 15:09:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Rameumptom http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-43448 Rameumptom Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:04:29 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-43448 My Gospel Doctrine teacher, who is also the Institute director here, talked about how the continents divided in the days of Peleg. Yikes! I cringed at that, though the rest of his lesson was excellent. I didn't make a scene then and there, but did email him later to share my thoughts on it. I told him that I believed that to be as much speculation as a limited flood, which we didn't get into, either. I then shared with him the original belief that the earth was divided up among the divine council of gods by El Elyon/Elohim, into 70 kingdoms. Jehovah received Israel as his kingdom. Since I didn't bother discussing it in his class, I was hoping he would leave such concepts alone, also. My Gospel Doctrine teacher, who is also the Institute director here, talked about how the continents divided in the days of Peleg. Yikes! I cringed at that, though the rest of his lesson was excellent. I didn’t make a scene then and there, but did email him later to share my thoughts on it. I told him that I believed that to be as much speculation as a limited flood, which we didn’t get into, either.

I then shared with him the original belief that the earth was divided up among the divine council of gods by El Elyon/Elohim, into 70 kingdoms. Jehovah received Israel as his kingdom. Since I didn’t bother discussing it in his class, I was hoping he would leave such concepts alone, also.

]]> By: SmallAxe http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-43348 SmallAxe Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:05:17 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-43348 <i> The issue has to do with what we are called to teach. </i> I agree to a certain extent; but I think the larger issue is <i> who </i> we're called to teach. If our students ask questions we should answer honestly and in line with their maturity to cope with our answer. The issue has to do with what we are called to teach.

I agree to a certain extent; but I think the larger issue is who we’re called to teach. If our students ask questions we should answer honestly and in line with their maturity to cope with our answer.

]]> By: Steven B http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-43343 Steven B Tue, 09 Feb 2010 02:54:13 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-43343 <i>". . . if all the biblical literalists feel perfectly comfortable promoting and assuming biblical literalism in Sunday School I don’t see why I shouldn’t feel free to disabuse them of those views."</i> Jacob, it is not a matter of what either of us "feel comfortable promoting." The issue has to do with what we are called to teach. “. . . if all the biblical literalists feel perfectly comfortable promoting and assuming biblical literalism in Sunday School I don’t see why I shouldn’t feel free to disabuse them of those views.”

Jacob, it is not a matter of what either of us “feel comfortable promoting.” The issue has to do with what we are called to teach.

]]> By: Steve C. http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-43334 Steve C. Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:39:40 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-43334 Great discussion. We'll be having our Noah lesson this coming Sunday. Just a few thougts: While we say that it isn't that important whether or not it was a local or universal flood, isn't it however important to seek truth? I don't think we should set out to disabuse people's beliefs on this issue, but I think it does do well, if the issue comes up, to suggest there are different interpretations and that one can hold a non-orthodox view on this and still be a devout member. I've also been thinking about how we take a very literal interpretation of the flood/baptism while at the same time we use baptism by fire as a metaphor. We claim a litteral burning of the eart (baptism by fire) yet we are not litterally burned when confirmed and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. How do we apply litteral interpretations to the flood and how do we apply metaphors? Just some thoughts. Great discussion. We’ll be having our Noah lesson this coming Sunday. Just a few thougts: While we say that it isn’t that important whether or not it was a local or universal flood, isn’t it however important to seek truth? I don’t think we should set out to disabuse people’s beliefs on this issue, but I think it does do well, if the issue comes up, to suggest there are different interpretations and that one can hold a non-orthodox view on this and still be a devout member. I’ve also been thinking about how we take a very literal interpretation of the flood/baptism while at the same time we use baptism by fire as a metaphor. We claim a litteral burning of the eart (baptism by fire) yet we are not litterally burned when confirmed and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. How do we apply litteral interpretations to the flood and how do we apply metaphors? Just some thoughts.

]]> By: Jacob J http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-43323 Jacob J Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:27:57 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-43323 Rob, Steven B, Shledon, if all the biblical literalists feel perfectly comfortable promoting and assuming biblical literalism in Sunday School I don't see why I shouldn't feel free to disabuse them of those views. This idea that we have to let people believe crazy things without upsetting them by presenting the other side of the story drives me up the wall. Why assume that people will fly to pieces like glass if they are presented with the problems raised by the text and some options which don't require a rejection of everything we know through science? Chris, glad your lesson went well, sounds like you are doing a fantastic job. Rob, Steven B, Shledon, if all the biblical literalists feel perfectly comfortable promoting and assuming biblical literalism in Sunday School I don’t see why I shouldn’t feel free to disabuse them of those views. This idea that we have to let people believe crazy things without upsetting them by presenting the other side of the story drives me up the wall. Why assume that people will fly to pieces like glass if they are presented with the problems raised by the text and some options which don’t require a rejection of everything we know through science?

Chris, glad your lesson went well, sounds like you are doing a fantastic job.

]]> By: Chris Henrichsen http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-42671 Chris Henrichsen Sun, 07 Feb 2010 18:43:52 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-42671 Lesson went well. No discussion of the flood. I ended up presenting Noah's invitation to enter the ark as a symbol of Christ's invitation to come unto him. We also talked about warnings that the prophets have given us in our day. One student mentioned that their parents are like Noah pleading with them to do what is right. Not sure how I did, but I love these young men and young women. They are great. Lesson went well. No discussion of the flood. I ended up presenting Noah’s invitation to enter the ark as a symbol of Christ’s invitation to come unto him. We also talked about warnings that the prophets have given us in our day. One student mentioned that their parents are like Noah pleading with them to do what is right.

Not sure how I did, but I love these young men and young women. They are great.

]]> By: Sheldon http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-41803 Sheldon Sat, 06 Feb 2010 01:19:47 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-41803 I think the real crux here is not to use Sunday School to disabuse either youth or adults of their biblical literalism. That's a path that in my experience only ends up creating problems for the teacher. What is essential is to be open to those who on their own (or at least from outside influence) no longer are certain of the absolute truth content of gospel stories. I have always been grateful that I had enough teachers who allowed me to combine my heterodox ideas about what might have happened with an active church life which has maintained me for 60+ years. Those teens who have doubts generally seem to have ways of making this known to the perceptive teacher. When they raise the issues that is the time to say well most Mormons seem to believe this way, but there are active believing Mormons who don't. The beliefs of the majority of the church seem pretty unshakable, We need to provide a path forward in the gospel for those who come to doubt some of those widely held beliefs. Sheldon I think the real crux here is not to use Sunday School to disabuse either youth or adults of their biblical literalism. That’s a path that in my experience only ends up creating problems for the teacher. What is essential is to be open to those who on their own (or at least from outside influence) no longer are certain of the absolute truth content of gospel stories. I have always been grateful that I had enough teachers who allowed me to combine my heterodox ideas about what might have happened with an active church life which has maintained me for 60+ years. Those teens who have doubts generally seem to have ways of making this known to the perceptive teacher. When they raise the issues that is the time to say well most Mormons seem to believe this way, but there are active believing Mormons who don’t. The beliefs of the majority of the church seem pretty unshakable, We need to provide a path forward in the gospel for those who come to doubt some of those widely held beliefs.

Sheldon

]]> By: Chris Henrichsen http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-41272 Chris Henrichsen Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:11:31 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-41272 Smallaxe, You may be on to something. Thanks for making me smile. Smallaxe,

You may be on to something. Thanks for making me smile.

]]> By: SmallAxe http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-41271 SmallAxe Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:51:47 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-41271 Or maybe a sign of your maturing apostasy ;>) Or maybe a sign of your maturing apostasy ;>)

]]> By: Steven B http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/02/teaching-and-discussing-the-flood/#comment-41198 Steven B Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:45:24 +0000 http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2751#comment-41198 Chris, the post is a sign of your maturity. Chris, the post is a sign of your maturity.

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