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	<title>Comments on: Does the Old Testament Teach Absolute Monotheism? Part I</title>
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	<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/</link>
	<description>exploring Mormon thought, culture, and texts</description>
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		<title>By: TYD</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-54246</link>
		<dc:creator>TYD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-54246</guid>
		<description>David J,

Thanks for stopping by.  I am in agreement with you that the Hebrew Bible has been heavily edited--especially by the Deuteronomists, as well as Priestly circles--to expunge references to other gods.  However, their editing does not appear to have been systematic (as a number of texts referring to the reality of other gods demonstrates), and I see not insubstantial evidence of polytheistic tendencies in the Hebrew Bible.  Moreover, this is confirmed, as you suggest, by relevant archaeology.  In my view, the Deuteronomists were really the innovators, and their texts and those they edited reflect this fact.  Thanks for contributing!

Best,

TYD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David J,</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by.  I am in agreement with you that the Hebrew Bible has been heavily edited&#8211;especially by the Deuteronomists, as well as Priestly circles&#8211;to expunge references to other gods.  However, their editing does not appear to have been systematic (as a number of texts referring to the reality of other gods demonstrates), and I see not insubstantial evidence of polytheistic tendencies in the Hebrew Bible.  Moreover, this is confirmed, as you suggest, by relevant archaeology.  In my view, the Deuteronomists were really the innovators, and their texts and those they edited reflect this fact.  Thanks for contributing!</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>TYD</p>
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		<title>By: David J</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-54220</link>
		<dc:creator>David J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-54220</guid>
		<description>larryco,

Two things

1. Around biblical scholars, it is wise to avoid using the 3rd person plural form of &quot;to be&quot; when referring to Elohim (ie, don&#039;t say &quot;Elohim are&quot;), unless you really are talking about multiple gods. If you&#039;re talking about biblical Elohim in a generic way, I advise saying &quot;is,&quot; not &quot;are.&quot;

2. Outside of Mormon circles, &quot;Jehovah/Jesus&quot; is not accepted.

I know you all are Mormons, so it is OK to say these things here, I&#039;m just giving you tips on dialogue with &quot;goiim&quot; (gentiles).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>larryco,</p>
<p>Two things</p>
<p>1. Around biblical scholars, it is wise to avoid using the 3rd person plural form of &#8220;to be&#8221; when referring to Elohim (ie, don&#8217;t say &#8220;Elohim are&#8221;), unless you really are talking about multiple gods. If you&#8217;re talking about biblical Elohim in a generic way, I advise saying &#8220;is,&#8221; not &#8220;are.&#8221;</p>
<p>2. Outside of Mormon circles, &#8220;Jehovah/Jesus&#8221; is not accepted.</p>
<p>I know you all are Mormons, so it is OK to say these things here, I&#8217;m just giving you tips on dialogue with &#8220;goiim&#8221; (gentiles).</p>
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		<title>By: David J</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-54219</link>
		<dc:creator>David J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 14:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-54219</guid>
		<description>Yeah, appealing to psalmic literature or other non-prose narrative language styles can be shaky ground for establishing a *biblical* precedent for pre-exilic polytheism, IMO. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I think the archaeology shows that they were polytheistic (Asherah, anyone?), but the Hebrew Bible has been white-washed by various redactors from different ages to wash out anything that might intimate otherwise (if it ever did).

Great post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, appealing to psalmic literature or other non-prose narrative language styles can be shaky ground for establishing a *biblical* precedent for pre-exilic polytheism, IMO. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I think the archaeology shows that they were polytheistic (Asherah, anyone?), but the Hebrew Bible has been white-washed by various redactors from different ages to wash out anything that might intimate otherwise (if it ever did).</p>
<p>Great post.</p>
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		<title>By: TYD</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-53083</link>
		<dc:creator>TYD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-53083</guid>
		<description>larryco_,

I will see what I can do.  This series is currently in six parts, and several of them engage questions of interest to you.  However, I should probably add a seventh part dealing with LDS Christian discourse on Jehovah.  Thanks for the extra idea.

Best,

TYD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>larryco_,</p>
<p>I will see what I can do.  This series is currently in six parts, and several of them engage questions of interest to you.  However, I should probably add a seventh part dealing with LDS Christian discourse on Jehovah.  Thanks for the extra idea.</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p>TYD</p>
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		<title>By: larryco_</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-53077</link>
		<dc:creator>larryco_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-53077</guid>
		<description>There are always so many questions that I have regarding &quot;God&quot; in the OT: Who are the &quot;Elohim&quot;?  Are YHWH (Jehovah), El, Adonis, God of A,I &amp; J, etc. all to be considered &quot;The One God&quot;?  Who were the ancient Israelites praying to?  Was it Jehovah/Jesus?  Was it the Father (who is Elohim?)?  Did God (YHWH) have a consort (i.e. Mother in Heaven)?  Why is there air?

I, of course, expect YOU to answer these, and all my other unwritten questions, definitively in your six-part series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are always so many questions that I have regarding &#8220;God&#8221; in the OT: Who are the &#8220;Elohim&#8221;?  Are YHWH (Jehovah), El, Adonis, God of A,I &amp; J, etc. all to be considered &#8220;The One God&#8221;?  Who were the ancient Israelites praying to?  Was it Jehovah/Jesus?  Was it the Father (who is Elohim?)?  Did God (YHWH) have a consort (i.e. Mother in Heaven)?  Why is there air?</p>
<p>I, of course, expect YOU to answer these, and all my other unwritten questions, definitively in your six-part series.</p>
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		<title>By: john willis</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-53072</link>
		<dc:creator>john willis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-53072</guid>
		<description>I look forward to reading the posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look forward to reading the posts.</p>
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		<title>By: TYD</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-53066</link>
		<dc:creator>TYD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-53066</guid>
		<description>john willis,

That is actually the subject of my next two posts!  Stay tuned!

Best wishes,

TYD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john willis,</p>
<p>That is actually the subject of my next two posts!  Stay tuned!</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>TYD</p>
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		<title>By: john willis</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-53053</link>
		<dc:creator>john willis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-53053</guid>
		<description>How does this fit into Margret Barkers conception that the first Temple theology before Josiah&#039;s reforms envisioned a high God El who had a son Yahweh ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does this fit into Margret Barkers conception that the first Temple theology before Josiah&#8217;s reforms envisioned a high God El who had a son Yahweh ?</p>
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		<title>By: The Yellow Dart</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-53034</link>
		<dc:creator>The Yellow Dart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-53034</guid>
		<description>SmallAxe,

Thanks for your comments!

You said:

&lt;em&gt;In church we’ve been trained, for the most part, to read the entire OT in accordance with the last claims [i.e., that there is only one God/god in existence]...&lt;/em&gt;

I think that your comment is important: the projection of the present onto the past causes a historical collapse, in this case removing the (interpretation of the) text from its original socio-historical context. 

I agree with your reading of Exodus 15:11 and will discuss those issues further in parts 2 and 3 of this series.

Best wishes,

TYD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SmallAxe,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments!</p>
<p>You said:</p>
<p><em>In church we’ve been trained, for the most part, to read the entire OT in accordance with the last claims [i.e., that there is only one God/god in existence]&#8230;</em></p>
<p>I think that your comment is important: the projection of the present onto the past causes a historical collapse, in this case removing the (interpretation of the) text from its original socio-historical context. </p>
<p>I agree with your reading of Exodus 15:11 and will discuss those issues further in parts 2 and 3 of this series.</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>TYD</p>
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		<title>By: SmallAxe</title>
		<link>http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/2010/03/does-the-old-testament-teach-absolute-monotheism-part-i/#comment-53033</link>
		<dc:creator>SmallAxe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 14:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.faithpromotingrumor.com/?p=2673#comment-53033</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Seems like a storm in a teapot. All those passages admit is that the other gods are referred to using the word god, not that they exist in actual fact. &lt;/i&gt;

The Hebrew Bible/Old Testament is not my area of study, but my understanding of this argument is that the OT shows a movement from Jehovah as a tribal god, where Jehovah is the god of a certain group of people and other tribes have other gods; to claims about being the most powerful tribal god; to claims about being the only god in existence. In church we&#039;ve been trained, for the most part, to read the entire OT in accordance with the last claims (although most LDSs will modify it to see it as a claim that Jehovah is the only god for our world, as other gods exist for other &quot;worlds&quot;). 

I do think, however, that if we take passages such as Exodus 15:11 at face value we come up with a reading that is more along the lines of the first claim; i.e., Jehovah was seen as the god of a particular group of people and other people had other gods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Seems like a storm in a teapot. All those passages admit is that the other gods are referred to using the word god, not that they exist in actual fact. </i></p>
<p>The Hebrew Bible/Old Testament is not my area of study, but my understanding of this argument is that the OT shows a movement from Jehovah as a tribal god, where Jehovah is the god of a certain group of people and other tribes have other gods; to claims about being the most powerful tribal god; to claims about being the only god in existence. In church we&#8217;ve been trained, for the most part, to read the entire OT in accordance with the last claims (although most LDSs will modify it to see it as a claim that Jehovah is the only god for our world, as other gods exist for other &#8220;worlds&#8221;). </p>
<p>I do think, however, that if we take passages such as Exodus 15:11 at face value we come up with a reading that is more along the lines of the first claim; i.e., Jehovah was seen as the god of a particular group of people and other people had other gods.</p>
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